Wondering if any of you out there have run into the situation where sellers or Realtors continue to use photos of your Staging work on a house AFTER you have de-staged and they are no longer paying for your rental items or Staging work? I have a situation where the Sellers decided not to continue to rent our things, and the listing was given to another Realtor team who came in before the listing was actually canceled (Realtors reading this - isn't that a violation of "Agency" rules?) . . . took photos of our company's Staging work, created their flyer, and then put the photos on the MLS. They put some really minimal stuff (a few greens to "stage" it themselves) - and the house shows terribly now in person, but in photos it looks pretty good (bad photographer but our stuff looks great).
I respectfully asked them to remove the photos showing my inventory and Staging and retake the photos with the house in its current state - vacant - as I am no longer being paid to showcase the house. It has not happened yet - been about 4 days - and so I am at the point where I may have to write to the managing broker to get action - which I hate doing because I do work with other Realtors in their office.
I think it's a blatant misuse of my talent and expertise to continue to showcase my work online and in flyers - clearly being used to "sell" the house - without my being paid. When over 80% of the buyers out there look online first, I know having it properly Staged will help give better exposure and presence than to show it empty.
I have explained that if they want to continue to use our inventory to showcase the house, we would need to be paid. Anyone else on the same page, or am I being too picky? I have added a policy to my professional Agreements that clearly explains this is not allowed - and am surprised that a Realtor would want to feature my work and dishonor what I do in this manner. They would not tolerate a future agent copying their flyers or stealing their 360 tours and not pay for the right to use them . . . I am not sure I can come up with a clear analogy for these realtors, but I'd like to try. Help!!
- Jennie
Jennie,
In addition to it being a lousy thing to do to you, it's a terrible way to market property. I can just image how let down the buyers must feel when they walk through the door.
Wow this is a dilema!
I think it's good that you added the statement in your contract so that this doesn't happen again. However I think you should bit your tongue and not say anything to the Broker. The little bit you are loosing now could cost you alot down the road if the Broker stop their realtors from using you. Hey you can take this as a huge complement - your work was so good they keep using the pictures. Gee if the house sells, you can add that to your resume - house sold with pictures of my staging work!!
Good Luck deciding!
Our MLS just announced that "cloning" a listing and "borrowing" photos from another listing is BANNED! YAY! Anyone caught will be FINED! :)
Unless there is something in your contract, I don't know that you have a legal leg to stand on. However, I think it is fair to say that you DO have an ethical leg to stand on.
If it were me, I'd put it in the contract with the sellers. The agents that got the listing second didn't enter into any agreement with you, but the sellers would have still been covered by the terms of the agreement.
Yeah, I think that unless it was stipulated in your contract, you have no right to object. After all, when people have moved out, they always use the furnished photos.
Obviously, there is a problem with the price, but the bottom line is an unsold house is a bad statistic for any stager and my advice is to move on and publicize your work with photos from a project that sold well. This is a tough one, for me, because every now and then, the one that doesn't sell right away is one of my favorites and I think it looked really terrific.
You cannot use staging to defend price, only to augment it.
I appreciate all the feedback . . . still undecided. Juliet - good point, however the furnishings in photos are of the sellers' things, not from a Stager's inventory that was rented, if that makes sense. I have photos of the sellers' house - stuffed full of so much furniture it was amazing! They moved all their stuff out and moved to another state.
If the Realtors asked permission, I would probably not be feeling the way I do - but to just be sneaky about it and then try to pass it off like it's not an issue is what bugs me. As I have in the past, I will probably take the high road - I don't want negative PR in their office, although I may still talk to the broker - I know her personally. - Jennie
Hmm I haven't thought about it really. This actually happened to me for the first time as well just recently. The sellers fired the agent without letting me know, and when I showed up on this past Sunday to de-stage, it was someone else's listing. I checked the MLS. They retook the photos but they changed the dining room place setting which is weird, but fine whatever.
I think I minded more if the photos come out crappy then people would think I do a crappy staging job where the house in person looked really cute. But you are right, they shouldn't do something like that. Not only it's unethical and unfair to the previous agent and stager, they also should not advertise the home as staged while the home is now vacant.
HUGS,
Cindy
Jennie, Very interesting post as that thought had not even crossed my mind. Glad you brought it up. I think you would have to have it listed in the contract for it to even be valid or to have the other Realtor stop using the photo's that show your staging ability. I would think it would be a HUGE let down to those potential buyers when they walk in the front door... I am sure the Realtor will come to find that out, if they haeven't already..
At what point to our contracts become too "fat"? Cindy has a good point! There will always be those who skirt the ethical guidelines...but at what point should the other 90-ish percent pay the price in terms of overly-complex legal contracts? Just a thought!
"martin" - my favorite "fit" for pants at Banana Republic.
Jennie: All great comments, and all good ideas. I agree with Susan and others that the Realtor is hurting their own business by creating an automatic disappointment for all those going through the property. Also agree with Becky that use of the photographs is a compliment to you. Of course, we can all continue to add clauses in our contract every time something untoward happens to us (which is a fairly regular phenomenon), but I'd like to think that in our business we can and should remain low on the "Fine Print" scale. For me, I put stuff in the contract that will prevent my business from being damaged, not that will keep me from being ticked off. I'd smile at the compliment, be deeply satisfied that I'm not being misrepresented (the house may be, and the agent may be....), and move on to the next amazing client!
Live as the happy person you are (I was at your roundtable in Chicago). Cheers, from DC!
Jaynee
"loquat": the toughest of the pilates aerobic moves. Check with your physician before loquatting.
To all - thanks for your feedback - I can see the tables are tilting towards letting it go - I guess I can view it as a compliment, but I am still peeved about the whole thing. Maybe by tomorrow the "emotion" will be gone and I will have moved on - being able to write about it is great - instead of taking hasty action I would regret! You have all been wonderful "Counselors" - where do I send my $$?
. . . And I will be putting things in place for "next time" so it does not happen. The contract we use is still one page - believe it or not! I have a list of about 6 things I request of the seller - like the house has to be Stage ready (no construction going on), house has to be clean, they are not to move or remove any of my items, etc. But I agree that I would not want to overwhelm a client with a bunch of "DO NOT DO's" and underwhelm them with my friendly side. . . In fact, I have to say this is the first time in 5 years of Staging that it occurred to me to pay attention to this - I know there have been other times that this happened and I let it slide. I think it's because of the power of the internet now and how much photos and visual representations of our work play a key role in getting the sale that I feel the way I do.
It is already 90 degrees in Roseville (UGH!)- and only 9:55 AM my time . . . I think today is a POOL DAY!!
If the Realtors had integrity with how this was handled, that would be possible. When they hang up on you for sharing that your items were not to be used, etc. just to start a dialogue, that tells me I doubt they will give me credit at all. People work with different sets of values and in ways that either honor others or not.
Jennie, the problem is that the housing market has gotten so bad that the Realtors with little to no skills are getting desperate. Chances are if a Realtor is so desperate that they would resort to this kind of stuff, they probably won't be around very long. However you will, so my councel would be to just let it go. I would not risk leaving a bad taste in someones mouth over this person that obviously does not rate very high on the food chain.
Hi Jennie - I have to disagree with you on this one. My philosophy is that one of the benefits of staging is that the seller will have a fantastic-looking place that they can take pictures of, and can continue to use those photos as needed - even if the place is no longer staged. Furthermore, if they took the pics, they own them, and can use them as they please.
That being said, if you're bothered by continued use of photographs of your staging, if you were to put a clause in your contract addressing the issue, I think you're on solid ground. If I were a buyer of your services, though, I'd think that this is being a little too picky, and that I'm being a bit cheated of one of the benefits of purchasing staging services - even if I don't choose to continue having the actual staging items in my home (no matter what, though, a seller who decides to continue without staging is still stuck with an unstaged house!).
Ann - Good points . . .however, the situation here is that the Sellers did not take any photos at all - so do not own them or have ongoing use of them. The former Realtor who brought me into the listing in the first place, sold my services to his clients, and encouraged them to do the Staging in the first place - is the one who took and owned the photos. The photos are not of the sellers things - they are my things used to showcase the house. All I feel is that if my stuff is so important to continue to market the house, pay me for it - ongoing rental and keep it Staged or a fee for use of images.
What is in question is not prior photos - it's that the new Realtors are USING my furnishings in their marketing of a property without paying for it, and without asking. They did not follow legal protocol for getting the photos (taking them and creating a marketing piece BEFORE they had a legal right to), and not just featuring the house as they have the listing - which is vacant. So they are using me to make them look good instead of having to invest $$ (like other Realtors do) to make their listings stand out.
The wording will go into future agreements - because the more I think about it, our images of our work - whether photos we take or they take, really make the house more marketable. Why should we, as Stagers, allow our work to continue to sell a house, when we are no longer part of the equation financially. Think about it. Someone could hire you or me to Stage a house, then say, "We've changed our mind" and maybe even ask you or me for $$ back, and then continue to use the "Staging" to sell their house. It is dishonest, and lacks of integrity.
A few years ago, the internet was not used as much as it is today for Buyers to pre-qualify a house before looking - the photos and images, virtual tours, etc. are extremely important to get a buyer to even want to see the house. When you or I stage, the appeal is great increased over showing it vacant or 'lived-in". I have not considered this aspect of income and marketing until now, but I don't like the feeling of being taken advantage of, and used by someone who clearly lacks integrity and is being totally dishonest with the buyers and even the sellers with how "they" are marketing the property. It wasn't "their" marketing at all - it was the prior agent's idea and inclusiion in his marketing that brought the staging. The items in the house were only to be used while the house was in contract for Staging which terminated BEFORE the new Realtors got the listing. So, all in all - it has been a good learning experience.
I am not out to complicate things or turn off clients - it is to me good business sense to get paid for the expertise we bring to the table - and as long as my images are being used to continue to market and sell a house, I deserve some sort of compensation - whether that is marketing exposure from the new agents, money, or something else. It should not be hijacked and taken for free.
Hey
Your widget it showing up! I like the hot pink.
Anyway, Jennie, I think it's time to take a deep breath in and just let it go. At this point, it's a great lesson learned and let's just leave it at that. ;) You are not doing anyone wrong, and that's the most important thing!
Cheers,
Cindy
In the interest of a good AR debate, I have to respond! I completely understand the situation with the new agents, but I still disagree. I do agree that the agents are being dishonest in a sense by using the photos. They didn't pay for them, and they're using them to add value to their marketing campaign. It's essentially cheating. However, I don't believe that the client is only the Realtor who pays the staging fees. Ultimately, the service is for the seller - and the benefit to the Realtor is realized secondarily through his or her commission. It is still the same house being sold, and it is still the same sellers.
I don't have a problem if someone asks me to stage their house and then changes their mind, so long as I have been paid what was agreed upon in my contract (but let me be clear - they're not getting any refunds!). If, during the time that the house is staged, they or their Realtor takes pics of the property, good for them - they're getting their money's worth. If those pics are ultimately used by another Realtor the sellers hire, then it's the former Realtor who has the gripe. The use of the pics without the former Realtor's permission should also raise a red flag to the sellers that they are dealing with a lazy and perhaps unscrupulous person. Or - who knows - maybe the sellers told the new Realtor to use the pics without ever thinking about it! Or maybe the sellers themselves took the pics of the inside of their own home themselves... the possibilities are endless.
I think it's ultimately a two-fold question: 1. How do you define your client? And 2. Who do you intend to have your services benefit? In my opinion, even if the Realtor is paying you 100%, the seller is also your client because you are placing items in their property for their benefit. They would be responsible to you or their Realtor if something happened to your staging inventory. As stagers, we cannot avoid interactions with all the parties involved.
All in all, it's a lesson learned. Since this is something that gets your hackles up, you'll know to protect yourself in your next contract. I think this is an especially interesting debate because I've often wondered about who my loyalties should be to when hired by a Realtor vs. the homeowner. Your experience brings home why that question is important.
Hi Jennie,
INTERGRITY - It would be wonderful if everyone worked in intergrity.
I understand how you feel, and I agree with you, I believe we should be paid for our value and what we bring to a client and the situation. Knowing you, I know you would feel completely different if they would have approached you and asked for permission.
I will be adding that to my contract also. Thanks for the insight. Keep up your good work. I met Barb last night - she is such a hoot! My best to you.
Kristi
jennie-
i need to remember to check my writings and my misspellings!
kristi
Good points again - and I have to share too that I have had many instances over the past years of Staging where photos of our work were continued to be used after we had de-staged, etc. What I am saying now is that I feel that we should be paid to continue to help market a house with our work - it's a new way for me to think of how we are used to market houses - especially when they may not sell in record time and may sit for months. . . The Realtors totally knew the stuff inside was not the sellers and that the house was Staged - not only was it publicized on the MLS with the old listing photos, but it was on the flyers as well.
There are rules that prevent listing agents from using a prior agent's photos from a house (read above) so why shouldn't we fall under the same "rules"? If it is wrong realtor to realtor, it should be wrong Stager to new Realtor as well. The clients got what they paid for - and for the time they paid for it and when the contract ended, so did use of my services and use of my items. All would have fine if the new listing agents had not sneaked into the house to take photos of the items before they were legally allowed to . . .they should feel lucky at this point that I am not reporting them to the local Realtor board but the prior listing agent might - and with good cause.
They are basically trying to pass off the image of the house that they did not pay for - and that to me is worth rethinking how I allow our work and images of our work to be used. I have to have clients sign a photo release to use images of their house - it's no different just because I was paid to do the job - I fulfilled my contract and if I am going to be used to market the house - payment please. . .
As our services continue to be engrained in society to be used - it's interesting to see how things change. Five years ago, I never used a contract or agreement - didn't have to. . . and now, it's "play devil's advocate" because with the increase in use of Staging, so has the increas of people out there to act dishonestly with how they work with Stagers . . . to be expected, but now that I know, I can do things to help prevent a similar situation - and educate that the photos and images of our work are extremely valuable in the marketing of the home - (ask Sue Argue!) and so should be treated like a product as well.
Jennie- I am an ASP realtor myself, and I can understand the dilemma, but i my opinion, i would be a wise business move to just let it go and make arrangements in your own way of doing business to ensure that it does not happen again. Confronting the broker will not help your business, and confronting the realtor will not either. It may make you feel better (or could frustrate you more, depending on the result of the conversation), but there will not be any benefit to it, and in all likelihood, it will only make things worse. Believe me, there are some crazy unethical realtors out there, but sometimes you just chalk it up, let it go, and find a way to learn from it. I would also not do any business with those realtors though.
Dale Campbell - www.CentralVirginiaRealEstateAgent.com
Jennie-
I'm dealing with this as I write. I staged a home back in July and they are still using my staged photos. The house has been de-staged and not even a permission request came my way for the use of the photos. I personally believe that is is very unprofessional on the Realtors part, all I ask is that my company name be listed somewhere on the marketing materials as well as on any on-line advertisement too. So far NOTHING! How are you dealing with your situation?
Hi Jennie - Thank you for sharing this concern - the more we Stage and meet the needs of Realtors the more there is to learn! Once again, you are sharing, giving and helping!
Kokuwa - Tipsy Koala bear
An update on this scenario . . . I took to heart most of what you all shared and did not pursue this with the realtors or the broker wisely figuring that I had more to lose than to gain, even though I do still feel justified in my position. I have put a clause in my agrements that photos of our stuff is not to be used without our permission (and possible payment). That puts me back in control of how I want people to work with me and our team - and then I let it go. Interestingly the house that used my photos has not sold - the disappointing presentation when people walk inside is so obvious.
- Jennie
"akee" - what I usually feel after a big Staging job!
Hi Jennie,I am just coming to this post. may I ask where the current REALTORS got the photo?. Did the homeowner give then the photos? if they were taken from MLs+s that is usually a vilaltion and the first Realtor should file a complaint.
Ginger ASP Realtor
Hi Ginger - the Realtors did take their own photos - but did not actually have the listing yet - and to me that borders on unethical - and they were sneaky with how they went about the whole process. Believe me if the Realtors had used the first Realtor's photos, that would have been reported as our region does not allow that. The sellers did not have any photos of the items to use. Of course the house has not sold - who can appreciate a vacant house with nothing inside except a few ledge greens?
Lori - yeah - I debated about making it an "issue" but it's better to just make a policy for the future and use things that don't go as planned as a "learning experience" and move on. . .
- Jennie
Hi Jennie !
I have the policy as I learned from a fellow stager to make sure to write in the staging contract, that your design ideas may not be used in photos or done in any other model. It helps to CYA !!!
Copyright your pics of your work. Some may disagree with me here, but the staging was your creative effort and such efforts can be protected by copyright. Contact the copyright office in Washington DC, do the paperwork, pay the nominal (I use them in my logos and ads, never yet for staging photos) Add your right, or Tm logo to enforce ownership, add to your contract that your photos of your work are copyrighted and that any unauthorized use without your express written permission is a violation. If you did not take the photos, say the Realtor did, then the Realtor must have done so with your permission. It would be up to the Realtor to see that other Realtors don't use your combined efforts and pawn it off as their own. In my humble opinion any Realtor who would use other peoples' work is a lazy, lying, cheating, scumbag and if you don't put a stop to it , it will continue. Adding a clause in your contract will put people on notice about stealing your work.
I had to serve a warrant on a client who would not pay up and it is sure to create a stink with the Realtors when, and if, I prevail and the client either has to pay up or have a lein placed on the property. I hated doing it, but my work is my work and if I don't stand up for it and don't demand respect and appreciation for it, who will? This thing seems to be really bothering you and I am not sure that to "make nice" is going to leave you feeling in control of your business. In the end its your shot to call, but I would suck this one up, add a clause to your contract and STAGE IT FORWARD.
Hi Jennie - I understand how you feel, but I would let it go. I assume you were paid for the job before, so cash your check, smile and wish them luck with the sale. Ultimately, the potential buyers will be mislead by the pictures and the Realtor isn't making a good judgement call to show those pics on MLS.
Some times being the "bigger" person is the right thing to do vs getting involved with all the negativity. I know that isn't what you would want to do by reading your prior posts:-).
Hi All,
I've been busy with jobs and classes, and got several recent comments on this blog topic. . . . Trust me, I have moved on - and decided to just let it go and put a professional policy in place so this does not happen again to me. I do feel use of photos of Staging that helps to sell a house should be given with permission from the Stager - and so this has been put in my formal agreements with clients.
Incidentally, the house that "used" the photos and is actually vacant still has not sold . . . probably really disappointing for buyers to walk into an empty house masquarading as a Staged property.
- Jennie
Hi Jennie-
I just read this post due to recent comments. Thanks for allowing us to learn from your experience.
Kathy